Curse

elektra_lucia · Mar 02, 2006, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Hey,

I read a thread on this forum - was deleted shortly. Have also had this brought into game a lot.

Now there's talk of "reporting". Where does this report get sent too? Surely if it's the makers of the game, they'll be inundated with spam? Where does it say on the box of the game, your account will be banned if you scam someone? Another thing, what is classed as scamming?

I sold a sword - wasn't sure how much it was worth, 22 platinum or so. Should of sold it for 500 gold. Now, I guess you could say I scammed him. If he asked me for the money back, I'd of told him to stop hurassing me.

I also, had a droknars run - I paid 2k at the start. I had several people fail to get me there, so I thought. Ok I'll pay 2k at the start, 1k in droks. I kept saying at rankor, ok can you run me to droks now, I'll pay 1k there. He didn't step out the portal, someone was offering to do it for 500 gold. So I said, ok see ya later.

He's now reported me and my friend - who wanted to go to same place.

I don't see it as scamming personally, he didn't take me to droks, so I didn't rip him off - many people here would consider it.

The thread I saw on here, everyone complaining about a guy who sold a worthless shield for about 100k plus 65 ectos or something.

Why is it the sellers falt someone is stupid? This whole scam talk in game is annoying, but also scary. I can't say as I want my account banned because some fool can't be bothered to do a price check, or do a run correctly.

Also, has anyone here had their account temp. banned? Did you get to argue back? I mean, it's all very nice waking up one day to find your account banned, but someone could easily photoshop those screenshots, or take selective screenshots to make someone look bad.

Snograt · Mar 02, 2006, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

Also, has anyone here had their account temp. banned? Did you get to argue back? I mean, it's all very nice waking up one day to find your account banned, but someone could easily photoshop those screenshots, or take selective screenshots to make someone look bad.

ANet won't ban anybody on the strength of screenshots.

They have their own logs...

wheel · Mar 02, 2006, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

The thread I saw on here, everyone complaining about a guy who sold a worthless shield for about 100k plus 65 ectos or something.

Why is it the sellers falt someone is stupid? This whole scam talk in game is annoying, but also scary. I can't say as I want my account banned because some fool can't be bothered to do a price check, or do a run correctly.

Quoted for Truth

fintor · Mar 02, 2006, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snograt

ANet won't ban anybody on the strength of screenshots.

They have their own logs...

ya you have to give them a lot of info so they can chck their logs. Date, time, city, district name of your character and the name of the character you are reporting and a screenshot.

Big_Iron · Mar 02, 2006, 07:21 PM // 19:21

A little common sense and caution go a long way. The other day someone tried a scam on me, but I was paying close attention...fortunately. I was selling an ecto for 7k, they offered then cancelled. They reopened the window, I put my ecto in and this time they had 1k in there. If anything, I was insulted. Of course, I cancelled and blasted the person for trying to scam me. Naturally, they made a hasty exit. I know I've been ripped off before, but for the most part it was either because I was a noob at the time or I was just not careful. But yeah, do your homework and pay attention to the trade window. People will try to sell me stuff for outrageous amounts or tell me I'm asking too much for something. Thank goodness for sites like Guru. With a few minutes of research, you'll know what are good prices and what isn't.

Mordakai · Mar 02, 2006, 07:28 PM // 19:28

If a seller is intentionally trying to defraud a customer, (advertising one item or price but delivering another), that is wrong. Pure and simple.

Obviously, "buyer beware." But just because people are ignorant of scams (for whatever reason), it does not make them "stupid" or deserving of said scams. Some scams can be pretty elaborate.

I guess the real question is, why do scammers feel the need to defraud people? Are they not skilled enough to make money legitamately?

Dazzen · Mar 02, 2006, 08:33 PM // 20:33

The answer might be to gain quick and easy money...

Buying one ecto and putting up 7 gold ? that's around 7K quick profit.
Selling mursaat token for 7K ? that's another 7K quick profit.

I guess it would took just one day for a 'good' scammer to fill his pockets with 600K + Gold. Plus you don't have to do anything else than trading.

Anyway i'm 100% against all form of scamming, people doing this should be banned at once.

Teklord · Mar 02, 2006, 10:39 PM // 22:39

As some have already agreed with. If a seller goes into a session with the intent of being dishonest in their dealings (like swapping plat for gold) then they do indeed deserve to be punished. Just as in real life paying for an item with counterfeit money is worthy of punishment. I fail to see a difference.

I question people who have things like this to say: "Why is it the sellers falt someone is stupid?"

Just who do they think they are? (Among other questions I will not type here)

elektra_lucia · Mar 02, 2006, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Quote:

As some have already agreed with. If a seller goes into a session with the intent of being dishonest in their dealings (like swapping plat for gold) then they do indeed deserve to be punished. Just as in real life paying for an item with counterfeit money is worthy of punishment. I fail to see a difference.

If you look at the nature of my post, you'd notice I was more aiming it at selling say a high req, 3 to 13 damage sword, for 100 platinum. Not for putting in five gold instead of five platinum. Many people, shops, salesmen anything will try to sell things for as much as possible.

Quote:

I question people who have things like this to say: "Why is it the sellers falt someone is stupid?"

Just who do they think they are? (Among other questions I will not type here)

Who cares honestly? Why do you care who I think I am? Or other people like me? If I sell something, in real life or in a game, I want maximum profit. Selling a sword for 50 platinum when it should be sold for five is stupidity from the buyers part.

Yes they can be ignorant of prices but they're stupid if they want to remain ignorant.

Quote:

I guess the real question is, why do scammers feel the need to defraud people? Are they not skilled enough to make money legitamately?

How is it not legit? And when would something be deemed as non legit? Say a sword can be sold for 25k usually, when does it become non legit? At 50k, or 60k? Who makes up these rules? Who defines legit? Who draws the line? Why them and not someone else?

Sorry, seems to me like something you manifactured.

Sagius Truthbarron · Mar 02, 2006, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

Where does it say on the box of the game, your account will be banned if you scam someone?

The god of boxes must have been sleeping the day they made the ones for Guild Wars. Or perhaps it is the fact that boxes are not legally binding, thus they do not pu their ToS on the box.

When you clicked the circle that said 'I have read and accepted the terms of service' you are bound to that. The box doesn't mean a thing.

If you're mad that you could be banned for stealing, perhaps you should have read what you agreed to.

Teklord · Mar 02, 2006, 11:17 PM // 23:17

As far as I'm concerned no item in this entire game should be worth more than what the Merchant would sell/buy it for.

This game isn't about items or wealth. It is about skill. However seeing as it is the first to venture into that territory, no one... no not no one but rather few can seem to grasp the concept.

MSecorsky · Mar 02, 2006, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teklord

As far as I'm concerned no item in this entire game should be worth more than what the Merchant would sell/buy it for.

This game isn't about items or wealth. It is about skill. However seeing as it is the first to venture into that territory, no one... no not no one but rather few can seem to grasp the concept.

Finally a voice of reason.

thunderpower · Mar 02, 2006, 11:41 PM // 23:41

You are mixing 2 things:

A)
Selling something as advertised.
Like what i advertise is what you get. Can be extended to what i advertise is what i show you and that's what you get. totally legit, no matter the price you sell it and the actual estimated "fair" value. If it's an expensive item, like 50k+, than players who pay that amount should have played enough to at least have some idea about prices and they should spend their life's savings with more care.

Usually people who buy expensive "crap" are new players who paid real money for their ingame fortune. So if you are new to the game and you buy ingame money for real cash and spend it on worthless items, it's YOUR OWN FAULT. Commercing ingame money/items is prohibited... at least not adviced, even if it's tolerated by anet.

B)
Advertising 1 thing, trading another thing.
This includes: switching an item for some other item, changing gold to plat, etc.

IMO it's a scam no matter if you switch an item for a better or a worth item, or do the opposite. Since you're not giving what you said you would, it's a scam.
Now, usually you wont get reported for selling a req 8 chaos axe 15^50 instead of a 15^50 chaos axe, req 13. But you will get reported if you do the opposite.

Selling mursaat token instead of ecto is a scam, the same goes for anything that's related to switching an item for another that looks just like it.

Paying 7 gold instead of 7k is a scam.
Never mind your arguments. If it's not a mistake (sometimes it happens) wich can be corrected by paying the remaining amount of 6993 ( in case of the 7 gold insted of 7 plat scam ) gold to the seller, than it's fogiveable and no action will be taken. Otherwise your account should be suspend and/or you should get banned in max 3 days.

Don't tell me you trade mursaat token by mistake! I`m not a moron or a retard to belive that. In my eyes, those denying that they traded mursaat token for deny the fact that they can distinguish shapes/colors. Also they deny the fact they can read/type (how in the hell do you log into the game at first hand? ).

The list of arguments can go on and on.

Bottom line: if you sell something for more than it's actual value, it's the buyers problem. estimating the value of an item is up to the seller.

For example gwen's flute from my first pve char is woth 1 mill gold to me, any1 wanna buy it? It's more than 8 month old. Get the idea? Anything else than this (see point B) should be considered a scam.

Dazzen · Mar 02, 2006, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by thunderpower

You are mixing 2 things:

A)
Selling something as advertised.
Like what i advertise is what you get. Can be extended to what i advertise is what i show you and that's what you get. totally legit, no matter the price you sell it and the actual estimated "fair" value. If it's an expensive item, like 50k+, than players who pay that amount should have played enough to at least have some idea about prices and they should spend their life's savings with more care.

Usually people who buy expensive "crap" are new players who paid real money for their ingame fortune. So if you are new to the game and you buy ingame money for real cash and spend it on worthless items, it's YOUR OWN FAULT. Commercing ingame money/items is prohibited... at least not adviced, even if it's tolerated by anet.

B)
Advertising 1 thing, trading another thing.
This includes: switching an item for some other item, changing gold to plat, etc.

IMO it's a scam no matter if you switch an item for a better or a worth item, or do the opposite. Since you're not giving what you said you would, it's a scam.
Now, usually you wont get reported for selling some1 a req 8 chaos axe 15^50 instead of a 15^50 chaos axe req 13. But you will get reported if you do the opposite.

Selling mursaat token instead of ecto is a scam, the same goes for anything that's related to switching an item for another that looks just like it.

Paying 7 gold instead of 7k is a scam.
Never mind your arguments. If it's not a mistake (sometimes it happens) wich can be corrected by paying the remaining amount of 6993 ( in case of the 7 gold insted of 7 plat scam ) gold to the seller, than it's fogiveable and no action will be taken. Otherwise your account should be suspend and/or you should get banned in max 3 days.

Don't tell me you trade mursaat token by mistake! I`m not a moron or a retard to belive that. In my eyes, those denying that they traded mursaat token for deny that fact that they can distinguish shapes/colors also they deny the fact they can read/type (how in the hell do you log into the game at first hand? ).

The list of arguments can go on and on.

Bottom line: if you sell something for more than it's actual value, it's the buyers problem. estimating the value of an item is up to the seller.

For example gwen's flute from my first pve char is woth 1 mill gold to me, any1 wanna buy it? It's more than 8 month old. Get the idea. Anything else than this (see point B) should be considered a scam.

/triple signed !

Was actually going to write the exact same thing you took the words out of mouth

This is why an in-game auction house would destroy such types of scams... I can't wait to see the new trade system

thunderpower · Mar 02, 2006, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teklord

As far as I'm concerned no item in this entire game should be worth more than what the Merchant would sell/buy it for.

This game isn't about items or wealth. It is about skill. However seeing as it is the first to venture into that territory, no one... no not no one but rather few can seem to grasp the concept.

You should have been born in russia some 40 years ago. Communism isn't that popular lately.

IMO what you said equals this in real life:
sell everything at production price, with no profit. This in some wierd way can be abstracted and reduced to some basic idea related to communism. Althou, communism was much more than that.

The economy is an important part of the game. Althou you might not be aware of this, economy needs skill. Just like in real life. Some get rich doing it, others die trying. And let's not forget the topis, in real life, scammers... namely people with fraudulent business get "busted". Just apply these ideas to the game and see what you get.

The only diffrence is that in this game, you can get rich much faster (althou extremly rarely it happens in real life as fast as ingame).

Teklord · Mar 02, 2006, 11:55 PM // 23:55

LoL... I do believe I was just called a Communist, by this person's logic at the very least. Oh well, I've said what I wanted to say on this. I've made my standing clear. I did not expect (nor would I) this to have any actual impact on how things work in this game. It matters not, as my point in that message was in the second sentence.

thunderpower · Mar 03, 2006, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teklord

LoL... I do believe I was just called a Communist, by this person's logic at the very least. Oh well, I've said what I wanted to say on this. I've made my standing clear. I did not expect (nor would I) this to have any actual impact on how things work in this game. It matters not, as my point in that message was in the second sentence.

My appologies, show me where I explicitly called you a Communist (formerly knows as a "red", yay they are coming). Let's put it this way: if you live by the idea expressed in the first sentence, I "think" equals IMO you should have found it funny... maybe staisfying ... or maybe just intresting to live in russia 40-- years ago.

As for your second sentence, /signed...

Skill is what matters, but don't sell your skills for cheap!

LouAl · Mar 03, 2006, 12:16 AM // 00:16

I also agree that the items in the game *should* be worth approximately what the merchants are paying (although I think the merchant prices could stand to be raised), but by the nature of supply and demand it is not possible to do anything about it.

also @thunderpower
/quadruple signed

if someone is willing to pay for what you advertise for the advertised item there should be no issues. I have bought things for MUCH more than they were worth. Do I care, not really. I chose to pay that price because I couldn't be bothered with waiting around to find a *fair* price. I have also sold many items for much less than they were "worth" because, again, I was not about to stand around in LA d1 for 3 hours trying to sell at the same price as everyone else. I prefer to sell for cheap (or sell to merchant) and resume playing the way I want to play, but then again, I am not rich in game (oh well).

I do think it is a little sneaky to advertise selling unidentified items for a certain price if the seller has already checked the item for mods that would be worth more money, but I still don't think it is scamming. There is a gas station near my house that sells 'grab-bags' of candy and other crap. Have I ever purchased one? No, because I am sure that even though it is cheap, what is inside is even cheaper (otherwise they would put it out on the counter for everyone to see and say "oooohhhh, I want that!").

elektra_lucia · Mar 03, 2006, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagius Truthbarron

The god of boxes must have been sleeping the day they made the ones for Guild Wars. Or perhaps it is the fact that boxes are not legally binding, thus they do not pu their ToS on the box.

When you clicked the circle that said 'I have read and accepted the terms of service' you are bound to that. The box doesn't mean a thing.

If you're mad that you could be banned for stealing, perhaps you should have read what you agreed to.

Quote:

The god of boxes must have been sleeping the day they made the ones for Guild Wars. Or perhaps it is the fact that boxes are not legally binding, thus they do not pu their ToS on the box.

You pay for a game to play it, you have not actually signed something online. Merely clicked a checkbox. You could have accidently clicked it, someone else could of clicked it for you. A non buyer could have clicked it. At point of sale, there was no information about this. In addition, you seem to have been very selective with what exactly you have argued about. Totally missing the latter parts of my post.

Quote:

When you clicked the circle that said 'I have read and accepted the terms of service' you are bound to that. The box doesn't mean a thing.

I still didn't see it say, thou shalt not sell sword for more than X ammount!

Quote:

If you're mad that you could be banned for stealing, perhaps you should have read what you agreed to.

If's, but's , maybes and assume. I read it like this.

Assume makes an
Ass -----U-------me.
-----of-----and

Not mad at anything, I'm capable of posting without having to get emotional

. I think you also missed the first post I had made. Or did not read it correctly (sorry, I'm not good at English, if there's something you're unclear on let me know).

Remember, worth is what someone is willing to pay for it.

I didn't get run to droks, I got ran to rankor - which cost me 2k.
I sold a sword that someone was willing to pay 20+k for. Not my problem, his stupidity for wanting to remain ignorant.

.

You can stick up a sign in your garden. Beware of dog, if you enter this house you are agreeing to the fact you are going to be killed. Hey, you can tell everyone it's the law too. Would it make it a law? Nope. Laws are different all over the world too.

thunderpower · Mar 03, 2006, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

You pay for a game to play it, you have not actually signed something online. Merely clicked a checkbox. You could have accidently clicked it, someone else could of clicked it for you. A non buyer could have clicked it. At point of sale, there was no information about this. In addition, you seem to have been very selective with what exactly you have argued about. Totally missing the latter parts of my post.

I still didn't see it say, thou shalt not sell sword for more than X ammount!

If's, but's , maybes and assume. I read it like this.

Assume makes an
Ass -----U-------me.
-----of-----and

Not mad at anything, I'm capable of posting without having to get emotional

. I think you also missed the first post I had made. Or did not read it correctly (sorry, I'm not good at English, if there's something you're unclear on let me know).

Remember, worth is what someone is willing to pay for it.

I didn't get run to droks, I got ran to rankor - which cost me 2k.
I sold a sword that someone was willing to pay 20+k for. Not my problem, his stupidity for wanting to remain ignorant.

.

Let's see.. what can I say.
First of all if you play the game, you agree (even if passivly) with the ToS, Eula, whatever...
Another thing: commiting a crime in real life wihtout knowing that you commit a crime does not exonarate you from the responsability. Namely, you are resposable for your actions even if you know or you don't know the rules of the game (in real life, they are called "laws").
Rules are made by anet in the case of guildwars. You either obey or get back to your old Lego/Matchbox where you make the rules.
As in real life, rules have their own evolution and sometimes they are invented on the fly. Just study some materials related to law and you`ll see.

And since it's a community game, you should stay informed. Some people fail to realise this. They live with the idea espressed in:
"What it's in my own PC, i do whatever i want, shut up noob!" .... "Server? what ? Stfu!!!!" .... "Real people, what? Stfu!" ... "Scam? wtf, you ga* fa** mo***f**** noob"

I hope i made my point clear

Everything above is general, does not regard your droks run.

Regarding your run to droks: if the guy reported you, he achibed nothing, zero, nada, niente, etc.. etc.. etc...
You paid for his current services, up to rankor, you decided to leave. That's it. You didn't sign a
contract, did you? Let's say service was unacceptable or below your expectation. [insert your favourite real life example here]

Running scams regard mainly people who get money upfront and do nothing.
And maybe people who get ran to some place and don't pay (assuming payment is made after the run). But generally these people are regarded as jerks, since there is almost no way of prooving this unless ANET logs all the crap that goes on in the chats in all possible laguages, internet shorthand and 1337 typing manners.